It sure looks like i've chosen an awesome topic for my first post. there were several interesting comments on Imann, his music and the state of tamil music in general. Some of the discussions that ensued were thought provoking..
One of the comments that I received from Guru a.k.a. Aviator was an email that filled up my entire Mac wide screen monitor ! I decided that this was too long to leave as a comment and decided to upload it as a new post. Here is the entire e-mail, unedited and uncensored for questionable (!) content
Aviator a.k.a. Guru Says
I don think 90 % ppl remember any other song frm the movie subramaniyapuram other than kangal irandal... " .... Agreed. Its a good raga. But james vasanth had the idea of actually selecting that raaga and making it into a beautiful song. This makes me think wats taking imman so long to surprise me with something like that after thamizhan or whistle. he sould be able to find atleast a handful of good ragas .... which he could make instant hits.
"even rajnikant's fans care about the music of superstars movie" .... some of the biggest music has been in Rajini's movie (muthu,padayappa, annamalai,baasha,billa,sivaji etc ...) .... People actually assume that the movie/ music is gonna be big ..... there r huge expectations ..... so please dont even compare the recent vijay's so called mass movies with rajini's ... Vijay lacks the flair now ....vijays movies used to have good songs in the past ...
"come on wat happened to pasanga? dats wat happens to one song wonder " --- Yes u r rite. one song wonders are unpredictable. The time gap between tamizhan and whistle is atleast 3 years. wat was imman doing between that? I bet he too was a one movie wonder till whistle. may be couple of more good songs in the middle. thats it. Correct me if i am wrong. So its too early to say a 2 movie old music composer James as one song wonder. So wat if pasanga was bad. James still has time to prove himself. Imman had 8 years and still ppl have be considerable to him giving him one chance after another. So lets give this guy James atleast a couple more years we jump into conclusions. But if james vasanth continues to be unpredictable like this .... one day we will be talking abt james vasanth is an under rated music composer .... if u want an audience u have to be consistent in the quality of music which I think imman lacks now.
"whistle, tamizhan , giri... had gud RR and wholesome music" ... almost 8 years in the industry and we r talking about 3 movies. may be u missed few more .... but still it is less.... harris jayaraj started out with imman in 2001 (more or less) .... even excluding the songs that he copied (as u said its a long list) ... that guy has more original/ good songs to his credit than imman with some great BGM (even excluding the ones he copied).
If DSP composes a good song will we compliment the director for doing a good job ??? So why blame the directors for it was his fault continue working with them. Say he had a great song and sundar C refused to use it in any of his movies. Imman should have atleast come up with a hit after sundar C started acting. i just need 8 great songs from him for the 8 years that he has been in the industry. That would make me keep him on the top of the list. But he just accepts some usual masala movies and composes an average number. Its his fault accepting so many average movies. If he just wants to stick around and is not interested in actually doing something out of the ordinary we r going to have this conversation for a long time. To put it simple he is not enuf self motivated to be different. He needs to come out of this mode.
"and w ref to dasavatharam- dsp dint compose the songs, and the masses who are goin to decide whos the best composer are not goin to bother about the re-recording...for him to strike gold- of course fletcher's and agraharam scenes had good bgms, " ------ anniyan had better bgms than dasavatharam.... The bgm of dasa was nothing special. thats the minimum RR that a big movie like that needs. our honourable DSP gave the bare minimum according to me. Also DSP needs a reality check between tamil and telegu movies. they r so different in music .... if he wants a tamil state award for a song (which he says is his dream) ... just compose comething new for tamil audience.... not the recycled ones from telegu movies.
"who can forget the super copy - maddy maddy in the very first film ;) and june ponal , and karu karu and.... oh my god the list goes on for harris jeyaraj :)---- Yeah. the list goes on ...... but harris will always be in a different league than imman ......... here is why ...
first we need to ask the qtion did Minnale album was a hit only bcoz of maddy maddy ??? ...... the guy whoc copied maddy maddy also gave vaseegara, poopol and azhagiya theeye .... in the same movie .... even if he copies couple of songs in a album ... the guy give 2 other good original songs ... thats wat i like abt him though i feel bad when he copies ... and everyone copies....Right from Raja to gv prakash. Even hans zimmer recycles his tune ......
Finally (as u said) all that matters to the masses is that whether it is good or not. When u are inspired by a good song and dont deliver thats wat frustates ppl. Its ok to do it to please the masses. After all its entertainment. Only ppl like me, u and raghav are actually concerned if its copied or not (bcoz we need something to talk abt :) :) ) ... If its for awards ... its a whole different thing. i would be pissed off if someone gets an award for a song which is already composed by some other guy.
I feel that the discussion has been going in the direction that he is not at all responsible for the state he is in now. We have been blaming others (like production, director etc) for him being under rated. Everyone has a downside in their career (even rahman ... vandisolai chinnarasu, pudhiya mannargal, parasuram, mona lisa). But wat imman has to do is that accept that he has lost some of his charm since tamizhan and whistle and convince us that he is on par with others. If he still thinks others screwed his musical career like u said .... he is going nowhere.
Will imman sustain in this industry. Yes.
Will imman take over other leading music directors in the near future. Yes provided he works hard on a fewer movies. Is he at par with other music directors like yuvan/ vidhya sagar. Not yet
@ Varun: ullathai killathey is one of my fav song. Imman just lost his charm with his frequent mass numbers. I would be more than happy to take all my comments back if he gives me another gr8 number. till then I think i will just wait.
@ Imman: Take up movies which actually has some story and scope for good song/ BGM. Please avoid taking mass hero movies. Sundar C is on acting spree, so make use of the time before he gets back to haunt you.
Some info: O Saya is not a one of a kind song" ..... 50% of that song is already there in an old english album .... and Jai ho at one point sounds like " Pokiri Pokiri Pokiri Pokiri Pokiriraja Raja ... Podhume Podhume Podhume Podhume Podhume Thaja" and couple of other hindi songs .... I am still wondering why it was nominated for Oscar ??? Also One of the bgm in Slum dog millionaire is already there in Alagiya Tamil magan opening credits. ARR has done more original stuff with an international feel to it which is recogniseed only by the tamil faternity. any hindi only speaking person should see his tamil scores to fully appreciate him. looks like we have cover every music director inclusing imman. Its been like a confession after several years of frustration. Thanks Raghav. I wil sleep in peace today. "
Raghav Says:
Well, Guru.. thanks for mailing in. That was certainly a cross between a rant and a long string of opinions. I respect some while utterly rejecting the others. I, personally believe (!) that tamil cinema has no dearth of talented composers and everyone, right from MSV to GVP has their own unique place in the industry. Each of them have given us memorable songs that we still listen to everyday. Kudos to all of them for making life a lot happier for all of us.
As a music lover and a student of music, I say this, "There are no good composers and bad composers.. but there're songs that i like and songs that i dont."
That is all. My first post was never to judge whether imann was a good composer or not. we all know that he is a very gifted individual and a talented muscian. It was purely to stimulate discussion and nothing else.
and for the record, I think Oru Vetkam Varudhe from Pasanga is one in a million !
And ppl ..., Comment away at this one. I think there'll be a lot of interesting responses
and once again.. I went through my entire Imman Collection. I couldnt find one bad song.. I think this guy is going to go places !
ReplyDeleteThe guy will go places but not the ones he wants to go. (this is a dialogue from .... Raghav u sould be albe to guess).
ReplyDeleteThe one song wonders seem to do a much better job.
Imman doesn't even have a webpage in wikipedia.. This tells that nobody isn't care about that 8 year experienced music director. ragahav create a webpage for him in wiki..
ReplyDeleteWell.. updating his wiki sounds like a good idea... should look into it soon
ReplyDeletehaha. sattre periya mails.! and Jai ho is so similar on notes to ella pughazum, that initial lines sung by sukwi. When vijay got ella pugal song to heights of kulla mani, boyle took the other one to oscars. You need people to carry ur music. Preetam who copies almost all songs, (his new york song is straight life from another indonesian band) still is in tops because of starcast in his movies.Iman is technically good, he has his own sound. Harris jeyraj has the simplest formula, it clicks to mass but it gets boring after 2 listen. there isnt much except karthicks voice. he lifts with no manasaatchi. I respect Iman, atlease he tries.
ReplyDeleteCheck this series, funny ones
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cpKFQ0hjE
Hey.. This is Sinduri here. First of all, talking about the Oscars, there are a set of rules and regulations that have to be followed by the whole crew. Only then can the movie even be nominated for Oscars. When I say rules and regulations, some of it which I came to know were things like, there should be a proper script in a particular format, a musical sheet consisting of the theory behind composing each n every piece and the notes for each n every musical note present in the movie. Danny Boyle, being a foreigner, sure has taken a movie(probably he doesnt agree that he went through all the terms n conditions of Oscar Awards) based on all these rules. So, Why did Rahman win an oscar when there r hundreds of other superb no.s that he has composed? Simple, he's smart fist of all to choose this subject because Oscar doesnt just see the music of stupid movies like ATM or any other numbers. Lagaan n Rang De Basante cannot be given an Oscar because of the fact that they wouldn't have really satisfied all the rules and Regulations given by the Oscar and secondly, they are more of the Indian Patriotic Movies types rather than giving a global perspective. Coming to Slumdog, Slums in India are portrayed, but the concept behind the movie if u see is Love... Slums r present all over the world... only thing India probably ranks i dunno second or third in Poverty after Africa n Bangladesh n whatever countries.. thats why Indian Slums r shown. So, Rahman, has done a great amount of research(technically and musically) n given the director of Slum Dog, Music that is globally relevant because the concept of Oscars is Global! Of ocurse agreed he copied from some of his own movies n other movies too.. But, technically, looking at musical aspects like western theory and chord Progressions and the Technical compatibility like the kind of Mixers used by him for producing a certain Quality which the Oscar requires, I think only a man like Rahman in India is equipped with such technology.
ReplyDeleteComing to Imann.. the industry that we have here truly sucks big time! U need Influence more than u have musical content(not in all situations but in most). The trend now that is being followed is a really unhealthy trend because nobody can ever withstand in such a trend that too if the music directors are just going to stick to tamil films. They'll earn Peanuts! Harris, Rahman, Yuvan, they've established their names many many years back itself n so its continuing. Imann failed to do so. Giving just one or two numbers which suddenly catches up with the audiences is not how a person lasts in the Industry. First of all, he should be musically qualified to step into the industry which most of the music directors here arent. Getting to do music for people like mani Ratnam n all r totally out of the question because Mani Ratnam has a fixed crew in his mind always when he works for his movies. Most of his movies only have Rahman doing the music because he is so confident abt him n knows that most of his movies ll become a hit musically as well as script wise. If a person needs to develop contacts with huge pple like mani Ratnam, they should first be musically and technically sound! That is they should create an impression that they're probably as good as rahman or better than him.. So, this probably answers whether Imann will strike gold or not or why he is not getting good scripted movies!
Thanks for the comment sindhuri..! I'll take most of ur thoughts at face value as u're a composer urself.. someone in tune with the latest happenings in the industry.. Cheers !
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteplease listen to the song carnivorus behavior in nenjil jil jil (by imman) and beat of passion from taal . THEY BOTH SOUND THE SAME. Whos knows what other hidden gems imman has.
ReplyDeletefor ppl who think imman is 100% original .... that's a start.
ReplyDeletethe above coments are for "Harris jeyraj has the simplest formula, it clicks to mass but it gets boring after 2 listen. there isnt much except karthicks voice. he lifts with no manasaatchi. I respect Iman, atlease he tries."
ReplyDeletei dont mean to tell harris is better ..... he copies... but atleast the has a success formula ..... imman copied this song and no one knew it ... ????? he could have just composed it on his own .... wouldnt have made much of a difference .....
Noone is 100 percent original. Noone can be, always. There is a movie by ilayaraja directed by mano bala which ilayaraja started all songs from MSV songs just to prove manobala that he can still make hits without one finding out where it was started from. Vennilave song is started from a gazhal. Harris might own a success formula, even deva once did. Salomiyaa was hit.! 9/10 know it is from junoon. SOUND THE SAME and lift are entirely different. Aditi pallavi sound the same like adada adada by DSP. Still aditi is loaded. I still repsect Iman, atleast tries. not harris. harris arrangements are getting simpler but weaker. he wins though noones denies. This is not weighed by winning. if winning is the only key raamarajan should have been superstar :)
ReplyDeleteit is cool if it is still hidden gem. for 8 yrs long. Nothing is original in here, a great artist just hides in the original cleverly. Harris just cant do that. Nenje Nenje, as per no of play in sun music it should be counted as hit of the year. and we all know its saranam is straight from silu silu, his own. this is like we see, like remake movies, but we respect tries even if it is flop. Anbe sivam vs Pokiri.
ReplyDeletei can respect when one tries and shows an improvement. I personnaly cannot for his recent failures which has been like more than 3 years at a stretch.
ReplyDeleteI am not able to agree with many of the comments made by everyone bcoz of only one thing. The comments tell me that imman has already achieved a lot and he was never recognised. Most importantly the comments never touched on the point that he needs to improve his musical quality. Every one has been only giving reasons for him not being recognised. No one actually has said what he needs to do to come back.
Looks like i am the only guy who thinks that he needs to be more self motivated and improve himself. Any musician needs to improve the musical quality which imman has failed to do.
Coming back to harris. satyam and ayan were just ok. As u said he is gettin more repetitive. He is going to end up like Imman and others who have failed to improve themselves along time. Its not only applicable to imman and harris... even Yuvan and G.V are good candidates. But yuvan would stand the test of time as I am confident that his best is yet to come. As for Mr. G.V. the guy as already started ripping english songs left and right. He is bound to become monotonous soon.